The following is a transcript of my interview with Meryam Joobeur who is the director, writer, and producer of Brotherhood. Brotherhood is currently on the shortlist for Best Live Action Short Film at the Oscars. The interview was held on 12/30/19 over the phone.
Carson-First congratulations on your success with Brotherhood now being shortlisted for the Best Live Action Short Film category at the Oscars! I was reading about the background of the production of the film and it was pretty incredible especially with the inspiration behind it. Could you give us a breakdown of the story and how you came to it?
Meryam-The backstory to the film is pretty interesting. Usually, you write a script and it leads to elements falling into place but what happened with Brotherhood was kinda the inverse of that. In 2016 I was doing a road trip in the north of Tunisia with the cinematographer of Brotherhood Vincent Gonneville. We were driving trying to discover a bit more of the landscapes of the country, on one of the days of our road trip we drove past Malek and Chaker, the two older brothers in Brotherhood. It’s a bit strange, even now I have a hard time explaining it but I remember making eye contact with Malek from the car and I told Vincent to stop the car and that we should take their photos. We got out of the car and asked to take their photos but they said no, we both got back into the car and both noted that there was something really special about these brothers and the landscape around us. I learned during the road trip that a neighboring town had a surge of radicalization after the Tunisian Revolution and that a lot of young men had gone to Syria from this region. That was one of the building blocks to the story, what happens when one of these young men return and I envisioned Malek and Chaker in the role. I thought about it for about a year and I thought about them. I wrote a script over Summer 2017 and the funny thing is that in the script I had written a younger brother character and I assumed I would have to cast the role. I told Vincent “let’s go look for these guys”!
The thing I am really grateful for is that Vincent, god bless him, is that whenever I have a crazy idea he goes along with it, he is not the type of person who says “that is completely illogical, we should not do this”, instead he says “Yes we should do this”! But we hadn’t even written down where we had seen the boys or their names or anything. The only thing we knew was the relative area where we found them and that they were red headed. We had 1 day to find them as we were returning to Montreal, we went to the nearest town we could think of and just started asking random strangers, “do you know two red-headed brothers with sheep”? This led to a lot of funny adventures like a guy who had his donkey run away while we were asking him so he had to go running off after the donkey. People were also just a bit suspicious of us. At some point, I could feel that Vincent was giving up and he was my inspiration! Eventually, I decided we should head back to another city nearby so we could eat some fish and head back. Another thing that made it difficult was that the entire landscape had changed. Since it was summer it was so dry that it was hard to orient ourselves but thankfully Vincent remembered a pile of rocks we had passed and there was a Shepard there. He told us that he knew the boys and that their house was nearby, it was crazy but we found them! As we were driving to their house it hit me that this was very weird, I didn’t know what I was going to say, like “I have been thinking about you for a year and have a script after a brief two-minute encounter”. We get to their house and the first person to come out was Rayene, the littlest brother and it was kinda perfect. They came out and were a bit suspicious of us and didn’t really remember us. I explained that I was a filmmaker and had written a script and was like “look, you don’t need to give me your answer right now, I will be back in 6 months and you can let me know then”. By the end, they kinda remembered us and we were all laughing. When I got back after a lot of complications the family finally agreed and the funny thing is that Malek, the oldest brother had actually harbored a little dream to act. He told me there was one time he was watching a show with his father and he told his father “wouldn’t it be crazy if I did that”.
This is an area where there is no running water, it's very isolated so it’s pretty crazy that he harbored this dream to act and I show up with a script written for him. It’s kinda crazy how things fell into place and definitely was a lesson on following your instinct and just having faith. I never really doubted moments I should have doubted as if the brothers could even act. I never even tested them until a few weeks before the shoot when they had agreed to act, anytime that voice came up I just said “No” and that they were talented actors in their own ways.
The thing I am really grateful for is that Vincent, god bless him, is that whenever I have a crazy idea he goes along with it, he is not the type of person who says “that is completely illogical, we should not do this”, instead he says “Yes we should do this”! But we hadn’t even written down where we had seen the boys or their names or anything. The only thing we knew was the relative area where we found them and that they were red headed. We had 1 day to find them as we were returning to Montreal, we went to the nearest town we could think of and just started asking random strangers, “do you know two red-headed brothers with sheep”? This led to a lot of funny adventures like a guy who had his donkey run away while we were asking him so he had to go running off after the donkey. People were also just a bit suspicious of us. At some point, I could feel that Vincent was giving up and he was my inspiration! Eventually, I decided we should head back to another city nearby so we could eat some fish and head back. Another thing that made it difficult was that the entire landscape had changed. Since it was summer it was so dry that it was hard to orient ourselves but thankfully Vincent remembered a pile of rocks we had passed and there was a Shepard there. He told us that he knew the boys and that their house was nearby, it was crazy but we found them! As we were driving to their house it hit me that this was very weird, I didn’t know what I was going to say, like “I have been thinking about you for a year and have a script after a brief two-minute encounter”. We get to their house and the first person to come out was Rayene, the littlest brother and it was kinda perfect. They came out and were a bit suspicious of us and didn’t really remember us. I explained that I was a filmmaker and had written a script and was like “look, you don’t need to give me your answer right now, I will be back in 6 months and you can let me know then”. By the end, they kinda remembered us and we were all laughing. When I got back after a lot of complications the family finally agreed and the funny thing is that Malek, the oldest brother had actually harbored a little dream to act. He told me there was one time he was watching a show with his father and he told his father “wouldn’t it be crazy if I did that”.
This is an area where there is no running water, it's very isolated so it’s pretty crazy that he harbored this dream to act and I show up with a script written for him. It’s kinda crazy how things fell into place and definitely was a lesson on following your instinct and just having faith. I never really doubted moments I should have doubted as if the brothers could even act. I never even tested them until a few weeks before the shoot when they had agreed to act, anytime that voice came up I just said “No” and that they were talented actors in their own ways.
Carson-What was the experience like working with non-experienced actors? What was the actual experience like on set and what were there reactions to the story considering there are all these deep emotions within it that must have resonated with them personally to some point?
Meryam-That was the interesting thing, I was a bit nervous to tell them the subject of the movie as I thought it would be taboo or sensitive, however when I told them it and I asked if they thought it was ok and if their parents would be ok with it but they said it would be. They understood that they were going to be playing characters and I was so happy they got the concept of it so quickly. They instinctively knew that whatever they were going to play wasn’t going to reflect on them which is really great. Through the experience, I realized that there was two major things that are really important when working with non-actors. First, are they self-conscious around cameras? And second, do they trust you? I was lucky as immediately when I told them that they couldn’t look at the camera and that they would have to pretend like I wasn’t there they all got it right away. They also all really trusted me, I worked on building a relationship with them and it was really that. I have tried even with my little cousins to see if they could act but right away you can tell there is a difference as soon as you turn the camera on as far as who has that lack of self-awareness and who doesn’t. With them, they all luckily had that lack of awareness in front of the camera.
Carson-It is clear the film is resonating with audiences now being shortlisted for an Oscar and being accepted into multiple major film festivals such as TIFF but I read that originally you didn’t have such high goals for the film. Is that true?
Meryam-That’s what is a bit crazy and wild, previous to Brotherhood I had made other short films and done other things that I am really proud of but I remember feeling a lot of the pressure of distribution, festivals, getting into this and that, and it was very toxic. With Brotherhood I wanted to turn a new page on everything, from how I approach my work to what my expectations were. The only goal I set myself was to hopefully get into the big festival in Tunisia so that the team and the boys could watch it, that was the only real goal I set. I remember when I was editing the film we had not passed the deadline for TIFF and my producer Maria was saying that we should send it and I wasn’t too sure but she was like “No we are sending it”. I am very thankful Maria put the pressure as it ended up being a very beautiful premier and a lot of my family came and it was the first moment I realized that the film resonated beyond what I expected and it led to a lot of beautiful things but originally I did only intend on playing in Tunisia.
Carson-What is the cast's reaction to this short film they are a part of being on this global scale where it is playing in festivals and possibly going to be nominated for an Oscar. Have they kinda grasped the idea that this is kinda a big deal?
Meryam-The funny thing is, the professional actors Mohamed and Salha are pretty astounded by how far a short film has traveled but the boys are also really astounded especially when the film did get into the Tunisian Film Festival because it's kinda like our Oscars. It is televised and all this stuff, they got to go for the premier and for them this was just huge. They were so excited about it and now I am trying to explain to my grandmother that we might be nominated for an Oscar and she asks what that means. I say it's like the festival in Tunisia and she gets excited. They get it but I have to put it in perspective to the festival in Tunisia. They defiantly understand that the film has resonated with people but don’t quite get how big the Oscars are in the western world or Europe. They defiantly are happy with how the film has resonated with audiences.
Carson-Past just the size of the reception the film has been getting has there been any aspects of the conversation surrounding the film that has surprised you?
Meryam-I don’t know if anything has surprised me but I was really happy to see that some of the things I was hoping would get across has resonated, even on like a simple level I was hoping that by casting these brothers whose faces are considered different from how Arabs or Muslims are normally represented as that it could break the stereotype which has always been something audiences have commented on. Even in Italy which is so close to Tunisia that you can see it from the coast, they were commenting about how they didn’t know that there were faces like that in Tunisia which to me was super important. I think even if you can break even a basic level stereotype it allows people to start to question deeper held predigests they have towards the Arab or Muslim world. I was happy to see that even because of the casting it could break those stereotypes.
Carson-Which is hugely important. I live in America where that is such an important thing to do and continue to drive for so that was really wonderful to see in film.
Meryam-I completely agree. I also grew up in the U.S. so that was always on my mind. Growing up after 9/11 there was obviously a huge shift so I was always hoping I could do something to alleviate those stereotypes.
Carson-Once again thank you so much for sitting down with me, the one last question I have for you is if there is anything on the horizon for you. Is there anything future projects we can keep an eye open for?
Meryam-I am currently developing a few feature projects and I am working on a feature adaptation of Brotherhood actually. It is going to be pretty different from the short but we are working on that now.
Meryam-That was the interesting thing, I was a bit nervous to tell them the subject of the movie as I thought it would be taboo or sensitive, however when I told them it and I asked if they thought it was ok and if their parents would be ok with it but they said it would be. They understood that they were going to be playing characters and I was so happy they got the concept of it so quickly. They instinctively knew that whatever they were going to play wasn’t going to reflect on them which is really great. Through the experience, I realized that there was two major things that are really important when working with non-actors. First, are they self-conscious around cameras? And second, do they trust you? I was lucky as immediately when I told them that they couldn’t look at the camera and that they would have to pretend like I wasn’t there they all got it right away. They also all really trusted me, I worked on building a relationship with them and it was really that. I have tried even with my little cousins to see if they could act but right away you can tell there is a difference as soon as you turn the camera on as far as who has that lack of self-awareness and who doesn’t. With them, they all luckily had that lack of awareness in front of the camera.
Carson-It is clear the film is resonating with audiences now being shortlisted for an Oscar and being accepted into multiple major film festivals such as TIFF but I read that originally you didn’t have such high goals for the film. Is that true?
Meryam-That’s what is a bit crazy and wild, previous to Brotherhood I had made other short films and done other things that I am really proud of but I remember feeling a lot of the pressure of distribution, festivals, getting into this and that, and it was very toxic. With Brotherhood I wanted to turn a new page on everything, from how I approach my work to what my expectations were. The only goal I set myself was to hopefully get into the big festival in Tunisia so that the team and the boys could watch it, that was the only real goal I set. I remember when I was editing the film we had not passed the deadline for TIFF and my producer Maria was saying that we should send it and I wasn’t too sure but she was like “No we are sending it”. I am very thankful Maria put the pressure as it ended up being a very beautiful premier and a lot of my family came and it was the first moment I realized that the film resonated beyond what I expected and it led to a lot of beautiful things but originally I did only intend on playing in Tunisia.
Carson-What is the cast's reaction to this short film they are a part of being on this global scale where it is playing in festivals and possibly going to be nominated for an Oscar. Have they kinda grasped the idea that this is kinda a big deal?
Meryam-The funny thing is, the professional actors Mohamed and Salha are pretty astounded by how far a short film has traveled but the boys are also really astounded especially when the film did get into the Tunisian Film Festival because it's kinda like our Oscars. It is televised and all this stuff, they got to go for the premier and for them this was just huge. They were so excited about it and now I am trying to explain to my grandmother that we might be nominated for an Oscar and she asks what that means. I say it's like the festival in Tunisia and she gets excited. They get it but I have to put it in perspective to the festival in Tunisia. They defiantly understand that the film has resonated with people but don’t quite get how big the Oscars are in the western world or Europe. They defiantly are happy with how the film has resonated with audiences.
Carson-Past just the size of the reception the film has been getting has there been any aspects of the conversation surrounding the film that has surprised you?
Meryam-I don’t know if anything has surprised me but I was really happy to see that some of the things I was hoping would get across has resonated, even on like a simple level I was hoping that by casting these brothers whose faces are considered different from how Arabs or Muslims are normally represented as that it could break the stereotype which has always been something audiences have commented on. Even in Italy which is so close to Tunisia that you can see it from the coast, they were commenting about how they didn’t know that there were faces like that in Tunisia which to me was super important. I think even if you can break even a basic level stereotype it allows people to start to question deeper held predigests they have towards the Arab or Muslim world. I was happy to see that even because of the casting it could break those stereotypes.
Carson-Which is hugely important. I live in America where that is such an important thing to do and continue to drive for so that was really wonderful to see in film.
Meryam-I completely agree. I also grew up in the U.S. so that was always on my mind. Growing up after 9/11 there was obviously a huge shift so I was always hoping I could do something to alleviate those stereotypes.
Carson-Once again thank you so much for sitting down with me, the one last question I have for you is if there is anything on the horizon for you. Is there anything future projects we can keep an eye open for?
Meryam-I am currently developing a few feature projects and I am working on a feature adaptation of Brotherhood actually. It is going to be pretty different from the short but we are working on that now.